The zero to one B2B marketing playbook | Alex Kracov (Lattice, Dock)

 So wanted to kick the conversation off by winding back the hands of time. And as we were talking about earlier, before we started recording, one of the reasons I was excited about having you join is that there's so little that's been open sourced about doing very early stage marketing well in the world of B2B. And so maybe we could start by talking about what the first maybe year looked like when you joined Lattice. What was going on at the company? What are the experiments you ran? Maybe what are the, some of the early learnings or things that really worked for you?

 No, would love to talk about it. So I joined Lattice as the third employee and the first marketing hire, and the timing I think it was like roughly 2016. And I was like 25 years old. I had a little bit of marketing experience, but I had no SaaS experience. I didn't even know what an MQL was or anything like that.

Lattice at the time. Yeah, there was just three employees, right? So Jack, Eric, you know, the two co-founders. And then Wes was doing, a little bit of customer support and sales. But I was really brought into, okay, how do we grow leads at Lattice?

And so a lot of that first year was me just experimenting and trying a lot of new things. and also building what I thought of as like the marketing foundations at the time. And so my first project as like most first projects I think for marketers, is actually standing up a better website, right?

A website that sort of explains our position in the market, but then also sort of has the backend infrastructure to accept leads and nurture leads and get a sense of attribution. So that was sort of one step of the foundation was the website. 

Part of the website, a big part, and, and I think a website as sort of like your, your brand um, manifestation to the world, right? It's your homepage to the world, obviously. Was figuring out our positioning at the time, and we can get into Lattice's positioning and how it evolved. But Lattice started as an OKR and goal company and then we transitioned into performance management.

And so I sort of used the website as a medium to figure out, okay, how do we want to explain our, our ourselves to the world? So that was kind of like the more product marketing side of things that I did. And I was running little growth experiments, right? Spend a little money on Google AdWords, see what happens.

Spend money on Capterra ads, see what happens. Start writing some LinkedIn or Facebook ads, see what happens. Sponsor an event, kind of see what happens, and see what leads. And place all these little bets and just to get the marketing flywheel going and start running a bunch of different growth experiments.

 The first year of Lattice was just me, and happy to get into kind of more of, of what we found that worked well, but that's what it looked like in the early days.

 Was everything, when you think about the first couple years, the North Star metric was meeting set or leads generated? You were stretched so thin, there's so many things that you could be doing. What was the orientation where you were able to say, I am gonna do X or Y, I'm gonna double down on Y, I'm gonna stop doing X, sort of that type of stuff?

 So the way I thought about it was like we had sort of loose short-term goals, right? You know, It was really like the standard startup milestones, right? Of we want to get to a million ARR, right? That was like the main thing that sort of Jack said okay, as a company, this is what we were marching towards. 

We didn't have a good sense of the funnel. There wasn't really MQL metrics or anything like that. It wasn't like I need to drive 50 MQLs per month. That's not what it looked like in the early days. It was just like, how can we get leads in general? And so, you know, I was looking, let's say if we start running a couple of Google ads, what is the quality of those signups? Who's coming in? Are they more old school companies? Which they were. And that was probably like one of the more, more failed experiments. 

But it was like all these little direct response programs that, trying to hit those short term leads and just give Seth, who was our first sales rep, some "at bats", right? And just getting a sense of, okay, how's the product resonating with people who are outside of, you know, the founder's network. cause the first group of customers usually come from people around the founder. And then when I was brought in, we were sort of moving towards like a bunch of cold leads. So that's kinda how it worked on the direct response side of things, running these little bets.

But then looking back, I think I made a really good decision of also focusing more on kind of, the long term, how can we make ourselves look really like a thought leader in the community? Like a destination for HR people. And my methodology at the time was okay, there are not a lot of websites out there in the, in the world that are dedicated to HR people.

And the ones that were, were really like old school and Lattice was selling to HR folks. And so how can we kind of build a media brand within Lattice that was focused on HR people, and if we could build a media brand that was focused on HR people, that's our distribution. And when I say media brand, it can mean a lot of different things.

But I thought of it in terms of franchises, right? We had a blog series. We had a Slack community, which we can get into. One of the early things that we did with Jack was a podcast and video series just like this, where we started interviewing different heads of people. And so some of those, like long-term bets they started like really small and simple, right?

We, we wrote one blog post, we filmed one episode, but over time we sort of built that marketing muscle and got pretty good at it.

 How did you decide how to break down your time between the things that would take years to sort of blossom into something really valuable versus the thing that would get a meeting for your first sales rep?

 I would try and time box by day. Mondays I would be focusing on paid ads, right? And trying to figure out, okay, what's the creative we're gonna put in them? What are the campaigns we're going to run?

And then, you know, the way I think about is paid ads, you know, if you get them going, they're running in the background, you don't need to do much. You know, they can run for a week and you can check in them later. Maybe on Tuesdays I was working on marking automation and figuring out, okay, how do we set up uh, autopilot, which is our marketing automation system at the time, and the different emails. 

On Wednesday I was figuring out, okay, what landing pages do we want, wanna add to the website? I was also meeting with Jack to figure out, okay, how's the product evolving, what are the product launches and the different sort of marketing moments that were coming down the pipe. And then, the whole time I'm also thinking of, what are, new bets or different things that we could try, webinars was another example and partner marketing, things like that. The problem with marketing is there's so many different directions you can take it and you eventually sort of need to do all of them, but you need to stick with a few that really worked. And I would say the through line for us was content, community and events.

I had come from this marketing agency, Blue State Digital, which was really good at kind of building communities online evangelizing people around a certain goal. And so all of my marketing funneled back to that idea of, how can we build this community of HR people online. And, you know, the goal, you know, and what we stood for was like this modern HR person, and just give them a bunch of free learnings and lessons.

Once you build that kind of media property, if you will, the nice thing about SaaS is like there's only one advertiser, and that was Lattice. And so we could sort of use that as a bridge between providing value to the folks before they were ready, to buy performance management.

 Do you have any thoughts on instrumenting those specific efforts? And how you start to map inputs to outputs, whether it be community efforts, early podcasts, this community driven marketing, which you know, since you got this off the ground many years ago, has really become something that a lot of companies do.

I think one of the more interesting questions is, how do you know if it's working in the first year or two? Should you do it one day a week? Should you do it four days a week? Should you hire two people to do it? Sort of All of those types of things.

 I generally think like nothing is gonna work right away. Things work when you stick with it, right? The beauty with either content or community is that they compound very much like software. And so pretty much all of your early results are not going to be like, aha, this is the channel, this is the silver bullet.

You'll have like little signals around it, right? And it's probably a little bit maybe more qualitative feedback in their early days where, okay, wow, a really good person signed up for the community. Or someone said something really nice about the blog and those things, you can start to get a feel and a sense for, okay, this works.

And you know, even if it's not the thing that's going to make the business worth a billion dollars right away. It's not bad for the business. Right? A blog post, an extra thing, and you know, all these little things, incrementally help the go-to-market function. But then of course, you have real numbers and you, and you need to, set up that interpretation as you said, to kind of attribute, okay, what is working or not. We started it really simply, like the digital ads and direct response stuff is a lot easier, right? You can set up your UTM tags and hidden fields on forms and then pass that through to your marketing automation software. Or you can use different attribution stuff like HockeyStack, HubSpot does this really well out of the box today. And that's like what we're using now. At Dock. So the digital stuff is a lot easier. And then, you know, we were using, Salesforce was our CRM at Lattice, and a lot of what we did was um, using the campaign object in Salesforce, we would take um, like lists, right, of the people who are in our Slack community, let's say.

Upload it into Salesforce, you know, either once every week or whatever. And then see, okay, how did that population move from, from there? Did it go on to create pipeline? Did they become, close one revenue and stuff? And then you could kind of look back and say, okay, 30%, I'm making up this number, 30% of our revenue was coming from, from the community itself.

 When you look across other, B2B companies today, many years since you got everything off the ground with Lattice, are there general areas that you think are still under exploited?

 I still think inbound marketing is generally under utilized by early stage companies. Especially on the engineering side, if you're an engineering leader and becoming a founder, it's very foreign to them and this idea of the indirect impact of marketing, cause a lot of this stuff just takes such a long time to mature. Like people want a silver bullet, like every early stage founder wants to just find a channel that's gonna take them to the moon. And I think that can work on the consumer side, right? Like I hear about e-commerce companies who scale all the way with just Facebook ads, for example.

But with B2B, the buying journey is all over the place. And so it's really just, picking a few channels and building, building that marketing muscle. And I think like things like SEO as a good example, it can just take so long, you know, multiple years to compound, that people are scared to invest in it early on.

But the reality is like when you're early stage, it's sometimes the best stage to to invest in it because you need SEO to be working when you're $2, $3, $5, $10 million in ARR. If you just start making those investments later, it's gonna, you know, really hurt your growth in the future.

Most founders today are focused on like outbound. The way you build a company in a lot of ways as you go out and talk to a lot of people. And outbound is a really useful tool and I've been using it at Dock. But I think some of these inbound marketing bets, because they take a long time to mature, you should invest in it early on. And you know, it, it works. Like some of the best companies today, HubSpot is a great example, you know, built it all on the back of inbound marketing and I think more companies should, focus on doing that today because it does take a long time to mature.

 Let's go back to a couple of the things that you mentioned that you stood up in that first year as you were working towards getting to a million in recurring revenue. What are some of the things you figured out about creating your first website? 

 So the best thing about a website is you can do like a magic trick in the market, right? You can just feel so much bigger than you are if you nail your website. And so if you would just invest a little bit more into the design of your website, but if you even also make your website like bigger, right?

Go look, you know, extreme examples, go look at SAP's website, and then go copy a bunch of those different types of pages. You can do a magic trick in the market and just feel a lot bigger than you are. And so the classic pages people stand up, at least in the early days, is just like, you know, single landing page on their website.

But I think it actually makes a lot of sense to build out more sections. So, you know, have a full product section that explains your different product offerings. Solution section is another really good one where you talk about the different use cases. Customer case studies is obviously another one.

You know, and these are all really obvious low hanging fruits, but when people land on your website, they can get a sense of like how big you are. And so if you, the faster you can kind of make your website look bigger, the better. And then the other piece of this puzzle is this, like SEO content side of things.

So setting up a CMS and a library or blog on your website where you can start to host content. And just, you know, you don't have to have a hundred blog posts right away. Start with one, hire a few freelancers, just get the marketing muscle going. Because these things take a long time to compound and all of these things will just make everything a lot easier for you.

 Can you talk in any more detail about some of the specific messaging to get right as you're kind of starting to build a website, tell your story publicly. And I guess maybe in the context of Lattice, it would also be interesting to explore what you figured out when you're in such a crowded category.

 So I think the first step when it comes to messaging and positioning, especially for an early stage marketer, is to just partner with the founder, right? The founder has done so much pre-work, right? They are talking to customers all of the time. They have unique insights about what they're wanting to build.

And in a lot of ways, the job of the first marketer is to kind of take what's in the founder's brain and tease it out into, you know, something that looks like a marketing message that you were to put on the website, right? Something that's maybe a little bit more snappier, a little bit more, punchy and something that, that stands out in the market.

That's like step one, downloading the information from the founder's brain. The second part is shadowing calls, and talking to customers as much as you can. Really getting a sense of, okay, how does your ICP, your Ideal Customer Profile, describe the things that you're trying to sell them?

 In some ways with your messaging you want to share that back with them. And so in some ways the evolution for Lattice's messaging in the early days, we can get into the full story, is Lattice started as like an OKR and goals company. When I joined that's what it was. And if you look at the first like TechCrunch article about Lattice, it's like slay squad goals or some ridiculous headline like that.

And Jack started talking with customers and realized that like goals are interesting, and Lattice still is in the goals world today. But performance reviews and performance management was something that the HR team kept bringing up again and again. And so that was like the original pivot of Lattice, was adding that new product into the suite.

And that's kind of what the first year was about. And I'm sitting next to Jack listening to all of this, and then trying to figure out, okay, what's the change that's going on in the world? Why now? Why is this important? And what I realized was, performance management was going through this big transformation.

It used to be, right? Like kind of the GE Jack Welch style of performance management, where it was like, you know, stack rank all of your employees, fire the bottom 20%. There was a once a year annual review that everyone dreaded. And there was this big shift in this, in the industry for, to continuous performance management.

And so we started to use some of that, that language. And like the original headline on Lattice that I think really worked was, " performance management that employees love", it was like a little bit of a joke because no, no employee ever actually liked performance management.

But this was the first, platform that was gonna deliver on that promise because we were making it more employee centric. So that was one type of messaging. Another big thing that was happening was HR people, historically it was Toby from the office, right? You know, it was like everyone shadowed HR. It was like compliance. It was like payroll, you know? Like it was not fun. It was not strategic. 

But there was this big shift. And they even changed the name. It's not HR anymore, it's people, right? And it became a much more strategic function. And HR folks and people teams had a seat, at the executive table and in the board meetings and stuff.

And so we wanted to position Lattice as kind of like this new age brand that helped with that transition for this modern HR person. And I looked at a lot of the other competitors, like one of my favorite ways to kind of figure out messaging and positioning is just go on all your competitors' websites. Just constantly stare at them, figure out, okay, why are they saying things in a certain way? And so we were able to figure out, okay, how do we position ourselves in the market against these companies? One way was through design. You know we hired Luke as a brand designer who's actually my co-founder now at at, at Dock.

And he really helped us, build a really a, a differentiated brand. And then, you know, you combine that with sort of a little bit more fun messaging, if you will, and something that makes people go, huh, that's different. We were able to kind of stand out in the early days.

Lattice definitely didn't create a new category. We redefined a category. And I think that is, that's honestly one of my biggest recommendations. It is really hard to just go out and create a brand new category, and Lattice did it a tiny bit later, which we can get into. But we really redefined categories and that's, I think, a much easier way to get your traction in the market. Because we could go to companies and they already had a line item in their budget for performance management, but when you're trying to create a new category, you actually have to create that line item in the budget, which gets a lot harder.

 How does that idea of instantiating itself apply to Dock? I, I think that a lot of people like the idea of category creation because they think it gives them a chance to kind of be the monopolist or the category king. But I think one, to your point, it's very hard. And two, most people confuse category creation with trying to redefine the category in some way.

And so maybe you could talk more about it in the case of Dock, or go through some other examples of people who are doing it really well and what does it look and sound like.

 So when it comes to Dock, Dock is in some ways like a bundled platform play, right? And maybe I'll set a little context on what Dock is. Dock is like a customer facing workspace. Think of it as like a private website between your company and your customers. And sales and customer success teams are using it to kind of manage the customer life cycle.

So sales teams use it to share content and sales proposals, do security reviews, mutual action plans. Customer onboarding teams are using it to onboard customers. You can manage renewals through it. And with Dock we basically have taken a bunch of different software categories. Digital sales room, client portal software, customer onboarding software, sales enablement software, and there's a lot more we can get into, and have packaged it up in a new way. 

And so, you know, you know, our pitch is obviously, you know, we can, we can save you money, but then also provide a lot more benefits in terms of how your company's collaborating, both internally, but then more importantly, how you're collaborating with customers. And so we've taken some of the old ways of doing things where most companies today rely on internal productivity tools, think of Google Docs and Asana and ClickUp and so on and so forth, and try and use those to work with customers. Dock is sort of this first external productivity software where it's purpose built to work from, your company to, to your customers or most important relationships.

And so, you know, I can go to someone and say, we're customer onboarding software, and people really understand what that is and they have a line item in their budget for it. But the way we approach that and the things around the software look really different.

 And I think kind of Rippling has made some of this strategy maybe slightly more in vogue. When you're thinking about messaging and positioning, how do you think about going after the wedge solutions? Versus the more abstract idea of like the all in one workspace for go-to market or customers or whatever it might be?

 Definitely makes it harder and it's something we've been working a lot at and I love what Parker's doing with Rippling and take a ton of inspiration from that. The way I think about it, is that, you know your hero on the website, right, the first thing people see, that messaging should stand for kind of like the broader umbrella of what you're trying to do. And that's actually the hardest messaging to get, right? Cause it needs to be flexible enough to include all the different things. But then if you're, too specific, like you're leaving out a lot.

And so, You need to kind of have a broader umbrella messaging for us. And how do you describe what it is? And there's kind of two ways to think about messaging. There's like the what, like what is this thing that people are buying? And then there's also the outcome that you're driving. 

So the what for Dock is, you know, a customer workspace is like the easiest way to describe it. And then the outcome we're driving is, you know, sales velocity, sales close rates, time to value, right? Like these different metrics. And so, on the homepage, and you can, my team makes fun of me, like I'm updating it all the time to try and figure out what's that right combination of words to kind of describe both the what and the why and that outcome, and I go back and forth. 

But then what you can do with your website, and this is why I'm a huge fan of like product and solutions pages, is you can have pages that speak directly to each of those subcategories. Keep going with the Dock example, we have a, you know, a page around customer onboarding. We have a page around digital sales room. We have a page around client portals. We have a page around mutual action plans. And so each of those little things, speaks to a specific audience. And oftentimes people find us through those pages, not even the homepage, and they come to us for that specific solution.

It makes the sales process a lot harder too. cause you just, you're, as a sales rep, you have to be trained to be able to speak to a lot of different use cases and you deal with wildly different competitive sets. So that's like a danger, of this approach. But I think it ultimately will build, you know, a much, much bigger business at the end of the day.

 When you're tinkering with the homepage positioning, for example, how do you know if it's working?

 It's a good question, I honestly don't too much uh, like I don't have like a perfect way to do that. I generally am not looking though at conversion rates that crazily. Like I am not saying on my homepage, am I trying to increase this from 3% to 4%, I'm trying to say what's the best way we're going to explain this end market?

And then I'm looking at like the overall business and saying, okay, is our ARR increasing as we're, explaining ourselves in this way? cause the homepage is just the manifestation of a lot of other ways we're explaining. If we're updating the homepage that way, we're changing the way we talk about Dock and sales conversations, or changing the way we use, you know, our pitch decks.

And even changing the way we're building the product. And so I don't have a good scientific way to do that. And like at a certain scale, you can, in the early days, it's really just gut and instinct to be honest.

 Going back to some of the early strategies and tactics at Lattice. What are the kind of campaigns or concrete things that you did back then that had an outsized impact? 

 so one thing that worked really well, and it actually scaled all the way up, but it just got bigger and bigger was like partner marketing and webinars. You know, in HR there's like a lot of different like, I think of them as like frenemies, right? There's like, um, these HRIS systems, like Bamboo for example, who would integrate with Lattice, but would also sell a little piece of Lattice.

And so we would go to Bamboo, for example, and say, let's do a webinar together. We'll make all of the contents, or we'll do most of the work here. You have a much bigger email list than we do. I'll do my best to drive leads, but like, let's work together to drive a bunch of leads to this webinar. And then we'll, we'll like split the leads afterwards and we can follow up with them.

And so that was like one tactic that really helped us build an audience, in the early days is we would go to all these companies that were bigger than us. And, you know, we would be able to sort of piggyback on their brand, get in front of their audience, and we would pick partners based off of who we knew they worked with.

Like Bamboo was a great one because they worked, you know, sort of our like upper SMB lower mid market, which was exactly where we wanted to be. That's not a tactic I've actually used yet at Dock, this partner market. Eventually I think it will, but I think like people are tired of webinars a little bit after Covid where it was just like, webinar bonanza.

And so that's one tactic and one example of a way, that we were able to leverage that brand. I think something that's more in vogue now is a lot of this like influencer marketing that's like happening, especially on LinkedIn where a lot of companies are spending money on different podcast brands or different people with big like LinkedIn influencers.

And it's the same concept, right? It's the same idea of like, how can you kind of steal someone's audience away from them, and bring it over to you. That was one really like tactical program that worked. 

And just to give you a sense of like how much that scaled, flash forward five years, we had a virtual event with 40,000 people. And we called it Resources for Humans Virtual. That was after years and years of doing these webinars monthly. These things scale all the way up.

We started just really small. You know, I was literally sitting in Jack's house doing the first webinar, but then, you know, over time you're able to professionalize it and make it a lot better.

 I think that's such an interesting story and that sort of type of user conference feels like something that people do in years three or five or seven once they get to some scale as opposed to doing it incrementally. And so I'm curious what's sort of the, the sort of more substantial story there and maybe are you applying any of that to, to your current company?

 So it goes back to this idea of, HR was changing, HR was becoming, you know, sort of more modern strategic, you know, we thought about it and we actually, we wrote a, wrote a book eventually, people strategy is your business strategy, right? And so the function was changing. And so we wanted to build a media brand around that.

And so we called it Resources for Humans, you know, a fun, fun play off of HR. And there was a lot of different components that went into it. It started with a Slack community. And that's, you know, something I'm not doing now at Dock cause I think there's a lot of them now, but we were one of these sort of first Slack communities. And it was a great way for people to jump into a shared Slack channel and network, like HR can be a pretty lonely function.

And so it was a place for people to ask questions. And we made a mistake at first. We first started the Slack community trying to go after VPs of HR. And we were like, let's make it a VIP community, and it fell flat. Like no conversation, nothing happened. But once we sort of broadened it up to sort of more all HR people, what we found is people, HR folks more early stage in their career were the ones asking the questions and needing the help, and then the more senior people would jump in with the advice.

So that was kind of like one of the franchises we built. And that went from, you know, zero to like 20,000, people in the Slack community I think it is today. And that was like one of these franchises. And so there was a bunch of other things like that. We did a people dinner series, right? So it's not just connecting online, it was connecting in person. So we would, rent out a room at a fancy restaurant like foreign cinema in SF and invite a bunch of HR people in there to talk and have different discussion topics around that. We turned the conversations that were happening in the Slack community into a newsletter. And we created a little online magazine around it.

And so there was like digital content around this. We had like a podcast and video series where Jack would sit down, we spent $3,000 a video, we would go into people's offices, I would rearrange their furniture, we had a film crew, and we would go in and interview folks like, Katelin who is the head of HR at Reddit, and other leaders who were really kind of modern, you know, who were good examples of this modern people leader.

And you know, in the early days it was really small, right? It was like, just me doing it at first, and then I hired Aaron, who is helping lead the community and event side of things. And then eventually I was able to convince Annette Cardwell to join, who runs all this today, still at Lattice. Um, And my pitch to her was like, you're working at a media company, and media is kind of this like hard industry where you are constantly trying to fight for, eyeballs for advertising dollars, come work at a SaaS company. I won't care about eyeballs for advertising dollars. I'm gonna let you do a lot of creative, interesting programming. And that's kind of, you know, the program has, has, has blown up since then.

 When you think about these specific campaigns or activities, do you think they have a life? In the sense of there are so many things that you did five or six years ago, or six plus years ago now, whether it be the way you thought about dinners, Slack, newsletters, podcasts that now feel like part of the normal repertoire of most companies.

Do you almost think they get arbed away? And so now when you're starting a new company, you go back to basics and say, what a Slack community was six years ago we're gonna reinvent it in some way. Or do you think they're just more evergreen opportunities and they're kind of part of the set of plays that you run that are evergreen now?

 I, it's a great question. I think about this a lot. I think in some ways both are true. A lot of these things go out of style and like, like at Dock I'm not starting a Slack community. There are way too many of them. They get noisy. It's hard to scale. There's still value and I'm sure some people can still make it successful, but for me, I just don't think that like arbitrage exists anymore.

One interesting thing and we'll see how it plays out, like LinkedIn, you know, has been a really good platform, to drive growth for Dock and to build my own brand presence and things like that. And so that's like a channel that we're investing in, a little bit more heavily for Dock than we did at Lattice.

Although, that's also somewhat my market. I sell to salespeople who are hanging out on LinkedIn all the time. HR people aren't maybe hanging out on there. So I think there's some of these things that are evergreen. Like dinners will always be good. Meeting up in person, hanging out with your target audience, you know, spending an hour with them drinking, drinking a little bit. You know, that builds really good relationships with people.

I also think like content generally will never go out of style. Now the formats of content can definitely, change, right? Like maybe TikTok is like, you know, the, the emerging channel now and short form video is blowing up, and is more important in a way that it wasn't before. And you know, I started a little podcast too, and it definitely feels a lot harder than it did at Lattice.

So, yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting balance and that's like the fun and hard part about being a marketer is you're just constantly looking for, okay, where can I get that alpha, where's like the next channel or thing where I can just get a little bit more of a competitive edge? Going back to the LinkedIn example, they, you know, I think they've changed their algorithm a lot recently, you basically have to start paying for content now. But you can start running ads as a person now on LinkedIn.

And so that's a really interesting arbitrage potentially where you can spend a lot of money and promote content as a person on LinkedIn, not just as a company. So that might be one idea in the future. 

 Why don't you share the million dollar Jack story?

 So there's a few times at Lattice where Jack would come and be like, we're gonna raise money. I have a million dollars, or whatever it is that we'll just use a million as a prompt. And like, how are we gonna come up with this? Like, how are we going to grow? And each year at Lattice we would look at the goals for the following year, and be like, how are we gonna do that? Like, how are we gonna have million dollar months? We're only at $300,000 months. Like how is this gonna scale? Right? Like, It always, it was really, really crazy. I think the best multi-channel campaign we did at Lattice was, you know, didn't have the best name for it, but it was what we called like the ABM City Campaign, Account Based Marketing City Campaign.

And what we generally did was say, okay, who are the HR people we want to go after? Started with the companies, there's probably like 15,000 companies, 18,000 HR people that we wanted to go after. 

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Alex Kracov is the CEO and Co-Founder of Dock, and former VP of Marketing at Lattice. He shares hard-learned insights into 0 to 1 marketing, examples of successful marketing campaigns, advice on hiring for marketing roles, and strategies for prioritizing marketing bets.